Este es un foro dedicado a las Fuerzas Armadas Mexicanas así como de los diferentes Cuerpos de Policía y demás entes que se dedican a la Seguridad interna de México.


Renuncian casi todos los altos mandos militares de Turquía

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Renuncian casi todos los altos mandos militares de Turquía

Mensaje por ferescram el 31/7/2011, 12:13 am

Mmmm me sorprendió la similitud de varias situaciones con nuestro país... conste hay diferencias abismales, hace 14 años este país terminó el último gobierno resultado de un golpe de estado militar... en Turquía aparte hay diferencias por la religión, y problemas con una minoría civil que se armó. En fin.

Creo haber capturado la esencia del análisis en este resumen del New York Times sobre un hecho reciente en la vida cívico militar de Turquía.

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Luego de que el casi el 10% de mandos de las fuerzas armadas de Turquía fueran encarcelados por “posible” conspiración en contra del mandato del primer ministro. La mayoría de los altos mandos presentaron su renuncia en protesta por esa persecución judicial.

Que para complicarla se dieron los arrestos previo a varias promociones militares. que los oficiales militares que renunciaron exigían se continuara con las promociones aún del personal "implicado" en los que consideran los oficialistas de la gestación de un golpe de estado. A lo que el gobierno se negó rotundamente. Ahora se espera que el tribunal militar, decida si los oficiales arrestados recibiran las promociones.

Además de que se manifestaron molestos por cómo se ha utilizado a los medios de comunicación para hacer campaña de desprestigio contra las instituciones de defensa.

"It has become impossible for me to continue in this high office, because I am unable to fulfil my responsibility to protect the rights of my personnel as the chief of general staff," Gen Kosaner told the Hurriyet news group.

El secretario general de las fuerzas armadas Gen Kosaner, indicó " Se ha vuelto para mi imposible continuar en el cargo de esta secretaría, debidoa a que no tengo posibilidad de cumplir con la responsabilida de proteger los derechos de mi personal cómo comandante supremo de as tropas".

Los críticos y defensores del primer ministro presentan una amplia gama de argumentos a favor y en contra de la situación y la explicación de porqué llegó a complicarse la situación hasta este nivel.

Los críticos del gobierno mencionan que la persecución de los mandos militares es injustificada y sin sustento, lo ven cómo un movimiento político del primer ministro de tener el control absoluto de todas las instituciones, demostrando una según ellos “clara” tendencia al autoritarismo.

Por parte de los defensores del primer ministro, opinan que este es un triunfo para Turquía, luego de que desde 1960, han tenido 3 golpes de estado por parte de militares. Según este grupo de personas, por fin el sistema político estará en manos de los civiles, y ya los políticos no serán intimidados por el poder militar. En el pasado los civiles tenían que abandonar sus cargos cuándo existía un desacuerdo con los mandos militares, y ahora pasa lo contrario.

De entre las críticas que más se le hicieron de manera reciente a las fuerzas armadas, fue poner en duda la capacidad de los militares, para combatir el terrorismo y la insurgencia Kurda, que tiene una zona del país inmersa en un conflicto armado que ha dejado más de 40,000 muertos. Según algunos funcionarios del gobierno, critican a las fuerzas armadas por no “hacer suficiente” dentro de las medidas estrictamente militares para cambiar la estrategia de combate a la insurgencia y prevenir los ataques y pérdidas humanas.

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Análisis del New York Times / Original
Spoiler:
News Analysis
Turkish Prime Minister Climbs a Higher Perch in Wake of Resignations

ISTANBUL — Fifty years ago, when a populist prime minister tangled with the Turkish military, he ended up on the gallows, the mandate of three election victories little consolation. This time around, the rivalry climaxed with most of Turkey’s military command resigning simultaneously, its leader complaining of powerlessness and bad press.

As Turks grappled Saturday with the shock of the resignations — and an extraordinary in modern Turkey’s history — officials scrambled to project a facade of business as usual, even as their critics warned of a creeping authoritarianism engineered by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has governed since 2003.

But in broader ways, the resignations on Friday delivered Mr. Erdogan a perch to reshape a military bound by civilian control, pursue a foreign policy emboldened by the decisive victory of his conservative and populist party in elections in June and pursue constitutional changes that could transform politics here.

The struggle that has posed the most serious danger to Mr. Erdogan — a powerful military willing to act above the law — in many ways appears to have come to an end.

“The days of Turkey’s military calling the shots are over,” said Cengiz Candar, a prominent columnist. “There’s a new equation in the politics of the country, and anyone depending on the military to score points on a political issue has to forget about it.”

In a move that officials acknowledged took them by surprise, Turkey’s top commander, Gen. Isik Kosaner, together with the leaders of the navy, army and air force, asked to retire Friday to protest the arrests of dozens of generals as suspects in long-running conspiracy investigations that Mr. Erdogan’s critics contend are politically motivated.

“Four-star earthquake,” declared a headline in Sabah, a pro-government newspaper. But Mr. Erdogan quickly promoted Gen. Necdet Ozel, the commander of the military police, as the projected replacement for General Kosaner. And while the prime minister said nothing publicly, perhaps in an attempt to stay above the fray, other government officials played down the idea of a vacuum or a future confrontation, in what appeared an effort to assure the country’s population of 73 million that a coup was not in the offing.

“It shouldn’t look as if a crisis, a problem still continues,” President Abdullah Gul said Saturday. “Events of yesterday were extraordinary in their scope; however, everything is back on track.”

The most immediate cause of the dispute between the military and civilian leaders was the arrests of military commanders in a series of investigations, given intensive coverage in the press, in which they and others were charged with conspiring to topple Mr. Erdogan’s government. More than 40 serving generals, almost a tenth of the country’s commanders, are under arrest on charges their supporters call flimsy.

But the battle runs far deeper, pitting a party with religious roots against an institution that has considered itself the guarantor of secular traditions, which underpinned the founding of the modern state in 1923 amid the wreckage of the Ottoman Empire. Suspicions ran deep enough that when asked to explain a murky sequence of events this year, Mr. Erdogan’s officials tapped their shoulders, signifying a general’s epaulets. The gesture was meant to cast blame on a military that his officials deem unduly unaccountable.

Officials said Saturday that there was growing frustration on their part over the military’s fight against a Kurdish-led insurgency in the southeast, which has claimed as many as 40,000 lives and seems to have escalated in past months. On July 14, 13 Turkish soldiers were killed in a clash with guerrillas in Diyarbakir Province, and the issue of rights for the Kurdish minority has proven almost as nettlesome as Mr. Erdogan’s contest with the military.

“The military is not really doing enough from a purely military point of view to prevent these attacks and these losses,” one senior official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the delicacy of the issue. “Something is missing in the planning in our fight against terrorism.”

In some quarters, there was a sense of triumphalism over the resignations, serving as a sign of a military whose influence pales before the past, when it carried out three coups, beginning in 1960, and just 14 years ago drove from power a government that shared some ties with Mr. Erdogan’s Justice and Development Party, known as the A.K.P.

“In the old times when the military and politicians could not get along, politicians used to be given notice and they would be forced to quit,” Mehmet Barlas, a columnist, wrote in Sabah. “Now, the reverse is happening. It is not easy to get used to change.”

But the country’s intelligentsia seemed divided, perspectives shaped by venerable cleavages between liberal and conservative, religious and secular and nationalist and Islamist. Those divisions were highlighted in the resignations themselves. To Mr. Erdogan’s supporters, the generals’ departure underlined growing civilian control over the military, in a healthy sign of a democratic order. But the prime minister’s detractors say he managed his victory by deploying the justice system against the military, in another example of his party’s mounting hold on state institutions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/31/world/asia/31turkey.html?_r=1&hp

Info adicional de BBC News
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14346325

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Re: Renuncian casi todos los altos mandos militares de Turquía

Mensaje por Lanceros de Toluca el 31/7/2011, 12:32 am

Dios, que desmadre, esto le dara un golpe contundente a la relacion turca con la OTAN (porque los que manejan el pedo...renunciaron)

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Re: Renuncian casi todos los altos mandos militares de Turquía

Mensaje por ferescram el 31/7/2011, 2:08 am

Por cierto la OTAN, se negó a declarar

"In Brussels, a Nato spokeswoman declined to comment on the resignations. "

En Bruselas, el vocero de la OTAN se negó a hacer comentarios sobre las renuncias.
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No recuerdo si lo puse, pero el gobierno de Turquía designó casi de inmediato al comandante de la Policía Militar cómo el nuevo General de las Fuerzas Armadas de Turquía.
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Re: Renuncian casi todos los altos mandos militares de Turquía

Mensaje por Enemigo Público el 31/7/2011, 4:55 am

ferescram escribió:Mmmm me sorprendió la similitud de varias situaciones con nuestro país... conste hay diferencias abismales, hace 14 años este país terminó el último gobierno resultado de un golpe de estado militar... en Turquía aparte hay diferencias por la religión, y problemas con una minoría civil que se armó. En fin.

Creo haber capturado la esencia del análisis en este resumen del New York Times sobre un hecho reciente en la vida cívico militar de Turquía.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Análisis del New York Times / Original
Spoiler:
News Analysis
Turkish Prime Minister Climbs a Higher Perch in Wake of Resignations

ISTANBUL — Fifty years ago, when a populist prime minister tangled with the Turkish military, he ended up on the gallows, the mandate of three election victories little consolation. This time around, the rivalry climaxed with most of Turkey’s military command resigning simultaneously, its leader complaining of powerlessness and bad press.

As Turks grappled Saturday with the shock of the resignations — and an extraordinary in modern Turkey’s history — officials scrambled to project a facade of business as usual, even as their critics warned of a creeping authoritarianism engineered by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has governed since 2003.

But in broader ways, the resignations on Friday delivered Mr. Erdogan a perch to reshape a military bound by civilian control, pursue a foreign policy emboldened by the decisive victory of his conservative and populist party in elections in June and pursue constitutional changes that could transform politics here.

The struggle that has posed the most serious danger to Mr. Erdogan — a powerful military willing to act above the law — in many ways appears to have come to an end.

“The days of Turkey’s military calling the shots are over,” said Cengiz Candar, a prominent columnist. “There’s a new equation in the politics of the country, and anyone depending on the military to score points on a political issue has to forget about it.”

In a move that officials acknowledged took them by surprise, Turkey’s top commander, Gen. Isik Kosaner, together with the leaders of the navy, army and air force, asked to retire Friday to protest the arrests of dozens of generals as suspects in long-running conspiracy investigations that Mr. Erdogan’s critics contend are politically motivated.

“Four-star earthquake,” declared a headline in Sabah, a pro-government newspaper. But Mr. Erdogan quickly promoted Gen. Necdet Ozel, the commander of the military police, as the projected replacement for General Kosaner. And while the prime minister said nothing publicly, perhaps in an attempt to stay above the fray, other government officials played down the idea of a vacuum or a future confrontation, in what appeared an effort to assure the country’s population of 73 million that a coup was not in the offing.

“It shouldn’t look as if a crisis, a problem still continues,” President Abdullah Gul said Saturday. “Events of yesterday were extraordinary in their scope; however, everything is back on track.”

The most immediate cause of the dispute between the military and civilian leaders was the arrests of military commanders in a series of investigations, given intensive coverage in the press, in which they and others were charged with conspiring to topple Mr. Erdogan’s government. More than 40 serving generals, almost a tenth of the country’s commanders, are under arrest on charges their supporters call flimsy.

But the battle runs far deeper, pitting a party with religious roots against an institution that has considered itself the guarantor of secular traditions, which underpinned the founding of the modern state in 1923 amid the wreckage of the Ottoman Empire. Suspicions ran deep enough that when asked to explain a murky sequence of events this year, Mr. Erdogan’s officials tapped their shoulders, signifying a general’s epaulets. The gesture was meant to cast blame on a military that his officials deem unduly unaccountable.

Officials said Saturday that there was growing frustration on their part over the military’s fight against a Kurdish-led insurgency in the southeast, which has claimed as many as 40,000 lives and seems to have escalated in past months. On July 14, 13 Turkish soldiers were killed in a clash with guerrillas in Diyarbakir Province, and the issue of rights for the Kurdish minority has proven almost as nettlesome as Mr. Erdogan’s contest with the military.

“The military is not really doing enough from a purely military point of view to prevent these attacks and these losses,” one senior official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the delicacy of the issue. “Something is missing in the planning in our fight against terrorism.”

In some quarters, there was a sense of triumphalism over the resignations, serving as a sign of a military whose influence pales before the past, when it carried out three coups, beginning in 1960, and just 14 years ago drove from power a government that shared some ties with Mr. Erdogan’s Justice and Development Party, known as the A.K.P.

“In the old times when the military and politicians could not get along, politicians used to be given notice and they would be forced to quit,” Mehmet Barlas, a columnist, wrote in Sabah. “Now, the reverse is happening. It is not easy to get used to change.”

But the country’s intelligentsia seemed divided, perspectives shaped by venerable cleavages between liberal and conservative, religious and secular and nationalist and Islamist. Those divisions were highlighted in the resignations themselves. To Mr. Erdogan’s supporters, the generals’ departure underlined growing civilian control over the military, in a healthy sign of a democratic order. But the prime minister’s detractors say he managed his victory by deploying the justice system against the military, in another example of his party’s mounting hold on state institutions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/31/world/asia/31turkey.html?_r=1&hp

Info adicional de BBC News
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14346325
A ver, explicame que similitudes hay entre México y Turquía.


Esta noticia me sorprendió, haber que es lo que van a hacer los demás oficiales y como va a repercutir en los nuevos mandos y estructura de ascensos.
El panorama se está complicando en la región.

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Re: Renuncian casi todos los altos mandos militares de Turquía

Mensaje por ferescram el 1/8/2011, 4:26 pm

Las similitudes a las que hago referencia son pocas: Mala prensa, el medio militar envuelto entre presiones políticas y de intereses civiles. Enfrentan a grupos de insurgencia/terrorista que ha dejado cerca de 40,000 muertos. / siendo una población de 73 millones de habitantes, si extrapolamos nos da algo cercano a los 55,000 que tenemos en México.

esos detalles.

Ahorita estaba viendo en la BBC, que por primera vez en la historia el primer ministro y el presidente de Turquía, eligiran a los oficiales que ocuparan las posiciones vacantes. es decir se establecera el mando civil sobre las fuerzas armadas.

Por lo que entiendo de la información, antes de esta situacón el mando supremo de las fuerzas armadas permanecía dentro de la misma milicia, y no en las figuras de autoridad civil. El secretario de las Fuerzas Armadas, designaba a su sucesor, y los demás mandos. Si estoy equivocado se agradece la corrección.

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Re: Renuncian casi todos los altos mandos militares de Turquía

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    Fecha y hora actual: 21/8/2017, 4:46 pm